9 replies to this topic

[TrueLies]

Hi,

here I would like to discuss about new hero classes and propose some changes to their stats. Before introducing hero classes lots of heroes had their stats increased with each new version in order to give them higher chance of being picked or what so ever. Now stats are limited to around 6 per lvl although stats on some classes go up to 6.3 and after playing they feel so weak because the change was big and sudden. Without a doubt I want hero classes to stay but imo their stats should get some buff because as the game progresses difference between classes are negligible. Let me show it with an example (here comes wall of text):

Heavy vs warrior
at lvl 16:
67 str vs 61 str, only 6 str difference or 114hp,
at lvl 25:
93 str vs 84 str, 9 str difference - 171 hp.

Now, spells and item play much bigger role than stats but I just wanted to point out how small the difference is between these two classes.
Another thing, if you wanna play tank build with morph spell it is better to take warrior class instead of heavy because after transferring all agi to str on lvl 25 heavy class will have 146 str while warrior will have 150 str total.

There is also some stat similarity in last 4 classes but I'm not gonna go with numbers again since I think i made my point so here is my suggestion.

Firstly I would increase starting stat from 54 to 58 and invest those extra 4 stats into main attribute or those attributes that class mostly depend on. Also I would increase stats per lvl to 6.5 for all classes and adjust damage, hr mp regen a bit. I will write those thing that I would change, things i don't mention I would like to stay as they:

1. Heavy
27+3.25 STR    
15+1.6 AGI
16+1.65 INT
65-70 Base damage
2 or 3 HPreg

I would increase hp regen which this class needs and base damage since BAT is increased. With this increased damage heavy class can also be used for onehit builds better than other classes too. With low agi and with 1.8 BAT keeps this class out of carry zone like it was before.


2. Agile
- Melee:
18+1.8 STR
23+3 AGI
17+1.7 INT
50-55 Base damage

- Range:
18+1.8 STR
23+2.8 AGI
17+1.7 INT
45-50 Base damage

Since this class has lower BAT I would decrease base damage by 5. After all this class relies on good agi gain and spells like essence shift, fury swipes, grow,.. more than on main damage. Agi gain on range heros is lowered by 0.2 like in current version.


3. Warrior
- Melee:
23+2.6 STR
18+2.25 AGI
17+1.65 INT

- Range:
22+2.5 STR
50-55 Base damage

Extra stats are put in agi and int to keep this class as far as possible from heavy. Imo you would use this class if you want decent attack speed and good hp pool. Str gain is lowered by 0.1 as well as starting str by 1 on ranged heroes.


4. Heavy Mage
- Melee:
22+2.5 STR
16+1.5 AGI
20+2.5 INT

- Range:
20+2.3 STR
16+1.5 AGI
22+2.5 INT
 
Str gain is lowered on range heroes by 0.2.


5. Spellcaster
18+1.8 STR
15+1.8 AGI
25+2.9 INT


6. Arch Mage
I wasn't sure how to adjust this class. So instead of separating them into range and melee I will separate them into str and int:

-STR melee:
20+2.2 STR
14+1.55 AGI
24+2.75 INT
50-55 Base damage
Cast point 0.1
- Tuskarr, Tiny, Earth Spirit, DK, Sand King

-STR range:
20+2 STR
14+1.55 AGI
24+2.75 INT
Cast point 0.1
45-50 Base damage
- Wisp, Phoenix

It is hard to see Wisp and Phoenix with so bad str so increasing that kind of makes more sense to me, after all they belong to str heros. Again str gain on ranged heroes is lowered by 0.2.

-INT Range:
16+1.65 STR
15+1.6 AGI
27+3.25 INT
Cast point 0
45-50 Base damage
MPreg 0.02
- Pugna, Invoker, Dragonus, AA, Disruptor, Puck, Rubick, Techies, Formless

Since range Arch Mage class in very fragile I would give them highest int gain and increase mana regeneration like techie had to compensate str and armor deficit.


7. Battle Mage
19+1,75 STR,
19+2.25 AGI,
20+2.5 INT,
45-50 Base damage

This class is probably int carry and with highest attack range of all classes I would focus stat gain mainly on agi and int. Also damage would be little lower like other classes with 1.6 BAT.


Now this suggestion doesn't make huge difference but classes do differ more and will better fulfill their role in mid and late game.
Although after going through these classes I must admit that I don't see the purpose of Spellcaster class. Imo people will go either with AM (for high int gain and 0 cs) or HM (for survivability and good int) instead on SC class. But I would still keep it so that we can have wide variety of heroes.
Some feedback about this suggestion would be nice as well as change in next version, if not like this than something similar.
 
Greeting

[Djargoo]

Hero classes suggestion:

 

Remove it!

[DracoL1ch]

Hero classes suggestion:

 

Remove it!

too bad, but he is right - community were overreacting on HC so we decided to roll back. will see another day for that again

[maverickrohan]

Here:

 

Source Excel File: http://1drv.ms/1rruR8q

[ResQ]

Thanks for the feedback guys, but as DracoL1ch said, we will be removing Hero Classes for Beta 3.

[maverickrohan]

10-4.

 

Just one more suggestion since I use the spell more than anyone else in LoD ... and folks on Chev/OHS/SGN will vouch for me ...

 

In general, in LoD you have:

• One Hit Builds
• Nukers
• Stunners
• Hard Carries
• Tanks
• Healers
• Support

The aim of the game however is to ultimately push lanes and destroy the opposing team's Ancient Structure ...

 

One of the unique builds I used to make (Pushing Build) is, a semi-tanky pusher with Liquid Fire + (Serpent Wards / Exo / etc.) ... given the number of other OP builds you can make in the categories I have listed above, I was very disappointed that you nerfed Liquid Fire ... now it needs mana & is not auto-castable, you have to manually cast it on a unit ... it just means a whole lot of unnecessary clicking ... Could you please remove its mana requirement and make it right-click auto-castable ... Please!

[PancakeSpecial]

Here:

 

Source Excel File: http://1drv.ms/1rruR8q

Thanks, this is useful.

 

As I think more about it perhaps the major issue with hero classes is that we went from 114 to 14, which is a sharp reduction in the number of different stat sets. Would a system involving more classes with more differentiation, but still a smaller set overall, be something everyone could live with? I am thinking on the order of one third of the original number would be enough to cover most hero stats fairly well.

[maverickrohan]

I think it makes sense for LoD as it is more about making your own hero based on Spells vs. the hero model.

 

Basically, in the original LoD, most people would never chose some hero models unless they did it just for kicks ... same can be said about some spells too (e.g. no one ever pick Morph ulti ... like EVER)

 

I just feel, if we make Hero Classes, you need to make more classes and buff their stats to a slightly extreme level ... which is why I made that Excel file, you can play with it and buff stats.

[ResQ]

I think it makes sense for LoD as it is more about making your own hero based on Spells vs. the hero model.

 

Basically, in the original LoD, most people would never chose some hero models unless they did it just for kicks ... same can be said about some spells too (e.g. no one ever pick Morph ulti ... like EVER)

 

I just feel, if we make Hero Classes, you need to make more classes and buff their stats to a slightly extreme level ... which is why I made that Excel file, you can play with it and buff stats.

 

We scrapped the hero classes concept for now and returned to the old way of manually nerfing/buffing stuff carefully, as we don't want the powercreep trend to continue.

 

Offtopic, regarding morph ulti: What do you think about the buff to it from Beta 1?

[maverickrohan]

I think it is pretty good, I'll try it out in a few games tonight and let you know

 

Could be used with:

Meta / Chem Rage ... prefer Meta for following Reasons:

Make Hero with ... Deso + Fervor + Meta + Slith Illusions + Ness Illusions + Replicate ... ???