27 replies to this topic

[DracoL1ch]

My thoughts:

 

Krobelus' passive: caster theme. Lifeleech from magic damage (octarine)?

 

Synergy (lone): summoner theme. Bonus DMG/HP/attributed to summons? Bonus abilities?

 

Divided we stand: ultimate tanky theme. Sharing damage with illusion? Active spell instead of passive?

 

 

[Jiminy_Cricket]

Synergy:  I like this idea.  Summons are way under picked and even laughed at when someone picks them.  Summons get bigger (hp) faster and stronger with each level.  The bonus ability of each summoned unit is already made.  

 

Divided we stand:  yikes this idea scares me xD  Everything I imagine it to be seems op.

[sm0ke]

Krobelus' passive: Gives certain chance that skill being casted not go into CD. X% value for ultimate Y% value for normal skill. Does not affects passives or items. (idk is this is possible to code)

Also i would like to keep MS bonus from original Witchcraft.

 

Synergy (lone): Aura that increases armor of allied units in 900 AOE. Also gives bonus HP to hero and all units that player controls. (should it affect serpent wards this way?)

1 / 2 / 3 / 4 armor ; 50 / 100 / 150 / 200 HP. (Could be lesser bonus HP separate value to non-hero units here)

Think about attack damage but nope. 'Cause we have Luna's aura already. And 4 armor will be good to push creeps and keep them tank more near towers.

[sm0ke]

Divided we stand: Ability to gaining extra EXP comes here in my mind.

Like you can put some creature (from active spell) in place to gaining exp for hero from killed units nearby it, when the hero-host himself is in other place.

Should that 'creature' be able to walk or fly or be invisible/immobile - i don't know. Just a though about how it can work... Transferring exp.

[Whiteboard]

Witchcraft:

Reduces cooldowns of other abilities by 10% / 15% / 20% / 25%. (Stacking with octarine is open for discussion.)
Reduces mana cost on other abilities by 10% / 15% / 20% / 25%.
Increases movement speed by 10% / 15% / 20% / 25%.

 

Synergy: Applies values on all controlled units (heroes included). Possibly buff values for summons and reducing bonus for hero(es).

Divided we stand: Implement as it is from original map.
- Tweak afterwards when needed.

Tempest Double: Implement as it is from original map.
- Also tweak afterwards when needed.

 

- Sincerely, Whiteboard.

[Whiteboard]

Krobelus' passive: Gives certain chance that skill being casted not go into CD. X% value for ultimate Y% value for normal skill. Does not affects passives or items. (idk is this is possible to code)

Also i would like to keep MS bonus from original Witchcraft.

 

Synergy (lone): Aura that increases armor of allied units in 900 AOE. Also gives bonus HP to hero and all units that player controls. (should it affect serpent wards this way?)

1 / 2 / 3 / 4 armor ; 50 / 100 / 150 / 200 HP. (Could be lesser bonus HP separate value to non-hero units here)

Think about attack damage but nope. 'Cause we have Luna's aura already. And 4 armor will be good to push creeps and keep them tank more near towers.

 

Luna's aura does not transfer to creeps.

 

- Sincerely, Whiteboard.

[DracoL1ch]

Witchcraft:

Reduces mana cost on other abilities by 10% / 15% / 20% / 25%.
 

Divided we stand: Implement as it is from original map.
- Tweak afterwards when needed.

Tempest Double: Implement as it is from original map.
- Also tweak afterwards when needed.

 

manacost manipulations possible only in case of "post-cast you'll get portion of mana back"

 

divided we stand has no chance to be balanced spell in any case, as AD from dota2 shown. no way it will be made the same way as original.

 

Tempest double, on the other hand, can be, since it's timed only. It may become alive in the future but not that far, 'cause many spells have issues with ownership

[Whiteboard]

manacost manipulations possible only in case of "post-cast you'll get portion of mana back"

 

divided we stand has no chance to be balanced spell in any case, as AD from dota2 shown. no way it will be made the same way as original.

 

Tempest double, on the other hand, can be, since it's timed only. It may become alive in the future but not that far, 'cause many spells have issues with ownership

 

#Divided We Stand:

I hanv't seen Divided we stand in action for a LoD/AD game. I cant tell how broken it is. But I know enough to agree that the concept is broken.
 - Emulate the effects of having multiple clones.

Lod (and solo) edition of DwS:

- First boots item effect is multiplied by DwS skill level. (Grants more ms, stats from pt, lower cd on BoT etc).
- Higher experience rate.
- Skills have < lower cooldown / a free multicast / higher damage output / all spells by user have 1-2-3-4-5 charges >.
- User gains a geminite attack effect < 1/2/3/4/5 additional hits > (Open for tweaking discussions).
- Passive skills have a higher prock chance.

Naturaly i expect an overuling script / trigger to affect the game as a whole for who ever has DwS.
But if coders cant be arsed scripting every skill to gain a uniqe value for DwS users, this concept must be abandoned.

 

#Witchcraft:
If the only overlaying method of refunding / reducing mana expenses on spell casting is post-casting, so be it.
- Unless other suggestion surpasses < reduced mana cost on spells>.

 

- Sincerely, Whiteboard.

[Ech0]

Divided we stand... HORRIBLE i remember when it was able to pick on DotA2 Ability draft... It really is just insane with anything... Charge of darkness... Any stun... Quill spray, pulse nova :S

 

No thank you, just keep it disabled.

[UzuMaKi_NaRuT0]

It sound more broken xD

[Whiteboard]

As it stands, DwS seems too broken to be implemented.

 

Which is a great shame, i'd like to see it in the game.

How about reducing all damage done by clones by < 50% >?

 

- Sincerely, Whiteboard.

[Ech0]

Will still be insanely problematic in six skills mode and -bo i think...

[Whiteboard]

Will still be insanely problematic in six skills mode and -bo i think...

It's supposed to offer power.

It will be a problem to others.

There is no perfect formula, it's supposed to help you win.


***
With reduced damage, additional casts will be less effective for damage spells.
Disables are dimminished by the system per additional disable applied.
Passives / steroid skills also have reduced effect.

Afaik, the one thing that gains full effect is defensive skills such as healing, backtrack, movement speed etc.
***

Instead of having a solo edition as earlier proposed. Let the skill spawn clones, dealing reduced damage.
- Only taking full advantage of defensive skills while damage and crowd control is dimminished.

 

- Sincerely, Whiteboard.

[DracoL1ch]

this way DWS wont be any viable. meepo's power is being able to clear the wave with any clone. Reducing outcoming damage you turn this into kinda spell buffing ultimate, and still clones won't be effective enough.

 

for now im thinking about passive exp multiplier, which could allow player to get levels fast as hell, walking around with lvl25 while others crambling for 9th yet

[Whiteboard]

this way DWS wont be any viable. meepo's power is being able to clear the wave with any clone. Reducing outcoming damage you turn this into kinda spell buffing ultimate, and still clones won't be effective enough.

 

for now im thinking about passive exp multiplier, which could allow player to get levels fast as hell, walking around with lvl25 while others crambling for 9th yet

 

That's lame.

It needs something else besides EXP booster / amplifier.
- Also, if you get 25 before their 9. You will win any game by default.
- It becomes useless at max level.
- Effect from skill drops in value as you increase in levels.

 

How about the previous suggestion, boosting your boots of speed, granting a boost to your spells (CD's / charges / damage) and an additional strike (with a cooldown / granting full effect of a normal attack)?

 -  Tweakings open for discussion.

 

- Sincerely, Whiteboard.

[Ech0]

If it's possible to work like this in  -s6 -bo mode...

 

With reduced damage, additional casts will be less effective for damage spells.
Disables are dimminished by the system per additional disable applied.
Passives / steroid skills also have reduced effect.

 

 

Just need answer to few questions:

 

The greatest problem indeed will be disables and clones casting them... How is this solved? Immensely overpowered i think.

 

Ultimates, Chronosphere (Will clones be able to enter chrono at same time? and simply cast one after another...), ravage (air time). Black hole... etc you get the point. It's just simply shitload of disable you can't deal with.

 

How about spells like quill spray or sticky napalm? Stacks with just few casts to 400dmg or amplifies and slows like shit and then its just boom boom boom all dead. Or low cooldown and zeus passive for example?

 

I just think like this it will be WAY too overpowered in anyway...

[DracoL1ch]

That's lame.

It needs something else besides EXP booster / amplifier.
- Also, if you get 25 before their 9. You will win any game by default.
- It becomes useless at max level.
- Effect from skill drops in value as you increase in levels.

 

How about the previous suggestion, boosting your boots of speed, granting a boost to your spells (CD's / charges / damage) and an additional strike (with a cooldown / granting full effect of a normal attack)?

 -  Tweakings open for discussion.

 

- Sincerely, Whiteboard.

limited usage of ultimate which can provide you free win with proper build. i find its conceptual enough .

if you slow down, you'll end up with no ulti. it thats simple.

[sm0ke]

New ult proposal (dws replacer):

 

Summon watcher - Places visible invincible watcher in target location. Watcher will collect exp from nearby dying units (allied and hostile) and transfer it to your hero. When second watcher is placed then 1st is moved to new location instead. Watcher can be target for Boots of travel and teleport scrolls. Not prevents neutrals from spawn. Tiny can toss units to it.

Cast range 2000 / CD 25 sec

 

Level 1 : Watcher sight range 700 / 600

Level 2 : Watcher sight range 900 / 800

Level 3 : Watcher sight range 1100 / 1000

 

Aghanim scepter upgrade: Watcher gains true sight within 700 AOE and cast range becomes global.

[Whiteboard]

limited usage of ultimate which can provide you free win with proper build. i find its conceptual enough .

if you slow down, you'll end up with no ulti. it thats simple.

 

I strongly disagree on this one.

A single skill pick shouldnt be black/white - win/lose.

Either you win or you sacrifice an ultimate.

While being ahead of levels gives you a uniqe and powerful advantage, the sacrifice is complete boredom and a lackluster.

I dislike having a "Everything or nothing" skill pick.

This skill needs to have something besides an EXP multiplier.

 

- Sincerely, Whiteboard.

[Whiteboard]

New ult proposal (dws replacer):

 

Summon watcher - Places visible invincible watcher in target location. Watcher will collect exp from nearby dying units (allied and hostile) and transfer it to your hero. When second watcher is placed then 1st is moved to new location instead. Watcher can be target for Boots of travel and teleport scrolls. Not prevents neutrals from spawn. Tiny can toss units to it.

Cast range 2000 / CD 25 sec

 

Level 1 : Watcher sight range 700 / 600

Level 2 : Watcher sight range 900 / 800

Level 3 : Watcher sight range 1100 / 1000

 

Aghanim scepter upgrade: Watcher gains true sight within 700 AOE and cast range becomes global.

 

If nothing else gives on this thread, I approve of this proposal.

 

- Sincerely, Whiteboard.