16 replies to this topic

[castbound]

When the opponent takes hunter in the night and Darkness, vision of players reduce to few pixels. You can not even see creeps in front of you. 

 

I noticed this a long time ago and I'm surprised no one has reported this bug.

 

Regards.

[ResQ]

Replay, what wc3 version are you playing? Obviously this is a very rare bug or conditioned by something else, if no one else reported this.

[Whiteboard]

I agree, this is unheard of.

And I have a problem interpreting the issue.
- Do you loose vision when an opponent has Hunter + Darkness active ?

 

- Sincerely, Whiteboard.

[castbound]

Sorry for late reply (was on vacation).

 

Well, this is known issue with all version as I noticed. Will attach replay (or screenshot) or you can download any games where opponent have Darkness + hunters in the night from gamers.host:

 

https://stats.gamers.host/games/

​

Will attach screenshot soon.

[castbound]

Again later answer. However, this is not important bug, but sometimes it's really annoying.

 

However, here is how it looks like in the game:

 01.jpg   131.17KB   1 downloads

 

Activated darkness (just after attack):

 02.jpg   114.37KB   0 downloads

 

 03.jpg   119.39KB   0 downloads

 

 4.jpg   135.36KB   0 downloads

 

Seems that replays is bugged, and I didn't save locally. Will also back later with replays. 

However, I saw even more reduced FOV when Darkness is active on opponent's team. For example, I remember that I was just a few pixel near creeps camp and I could not saw them. So I close more (made collision with creeps to see them).

 

Regards.

[DracoL1ch]

it's not bugged, darkness does reduce enemy's sight by 25%

wc3's sight ranges kinda worst idea ever, but thats how it supposed to be. darkness OP

[castbound]

Yes, I know that Darkness reduce the vision of enemy units, but vision is like 200/300 (~50% or more reduced at night). It also reduce vision of wards and towers if I am not mistaken.  

We can clearly see at 3rd image that vision is reduced more than 25%.

 

This is from DotA 2 (new Darkness):

 

Darkness

Behavior: No Target

Night Stalker smothers the sun and summons instant darkness, so that he might use his powers at their fullest. While Darkness is in effect, enemy heroes, units, wards and buildings have their vision range reduced to 675.

Upgradable by Aghanim's Scepter.

 

Aghanim Upgrade: Grants unobstructed vision in the night. The improved vision does not depend on using Darkness.

DURATION: 50.0

ENEMY VISION RANGE: 675

CAST POINT 0.3s

Cooldown 160 120 80

[DracoL1ch]

and here you can find why its so low

http://playdota.com/...ad.php?t=361727

25% penalty for 800 is 600, still in sight level 5

so thats doesnt matter

[ResQ]

Regardless of this being a bug or not (it isn't), Darkness gets nerfed next patch: the -25% vision for enemies is being removed. (unless you're in -BO mode, there it still decreases enemy vision by 25%)

[castbound]

I understand the mechanics of this, as well as the obstacles that reduce visibility. I guess it's algorithm that does not accurately calculates the visibility of certain situations. Example is the already mentioned creep camp (there's no obstacles that blocks vision). I could not see any of creeps until I literally touch them (even I was few pixels close to them).

Also, I noticed a bad calculation of vision when you place a observer ward on a cliff between highground and lowground on a very inaccessible terrain (will take a screenshot if needed). Then it happens that vision randomly increased and spreads randomly on higher terrain (you can see "a small circles" of vision on terrain in fog of war). 

After all, this is a part of engine (as well as all mentioned) and therefore can not be considered as a bug.

 

May be slightly improve Darkness (or as future skill). For example, when activated all vision of opposing heroes is removed for a short time within a certain radius (if they are close to hero)  (as well as vision on minimap).

I mean all the same as Darkness just on activation vision is removed (blind opponents) for a short time.  

 

Regards.

[Whiteboard]

Lol. Darkness getting nerfed. It's semi useless as it offers no power.

 - Only utility.

 

That's why you have wards.

That's why you get vision spells such as Track and Blood thirst.

You can also use the courier for vision if Darkness is indeed an obstacle.

 

Think around the problem instead of getting destroyed by it.

 

- Sincerely, Whiteboard.

[castbound]

Vision and Field of View is different things...

You missed the point  

[Whiteboard]

Aye, map awareness vs unit vision.

Both remains a state you need/desire plenty of.

 

Vision on your enemy can counter-act the vision of your own unit.

 

If you know your in's and out's with a character that you play (regardless of game) - you have most focus on your enemy, not yourself.

 

Thus they become complementary to eachother, two sides of the same coin.

 

I find it ridicilous to nerf Darkness when it grants 0 power for it's pick alone and must be synergized with other abilities from Night Stalker in the first place.
- With exception of combining other skills from Night Stalker with Eclipse (from Luna). Which is sidetracking from the main topic while at it.

 

Verdict: Nerfing Darkness = Lulz.

 

- Sincerely, Whiteboard.

[ResQ]

Unobstructed vision at night without agha.

[Whiteboard]

Unobstructed vision at night without agha.

That's utility, not power.
- Much like a supporting skill than a raw-power pick.

 

Darkness will not kill people.

Darkness will not heal you or your allies.

It gives information you can act on, but standing close to people wont give you shit as a direct result.

 - It does nothing else besides providing vision and boosting other skills.

Darkness alone is powerless. You cant act without power.

Please understand the diffrence between utility and power.

 

Verdict remains the same, lulz for nerfing darkness.

 

- Sincerely, Whiteboard.

[castbound]

Not true. Vision provides a lot and is very powerfull. 

It's hard to gank you, you can easily gank, good map control etc...

Vision and map control is one of the most important factors for winning (including team play).

[DracoL1ch]

guys guys guys you better move with it into suggestion. non-bug confirmed.